Episode highlights
- 00:04:42 – Challenges of being a female designer in Nigeria
- 00:07:09 – The importance of mentors and role models
- 00:15:39 – Barriers women face in tech
- 00:24:03 – Empathy as the key for men to support women in tech
- 00:25:25 – Where to follow Tejiri
When you are able to see people that sound like you and look like you, it's easier for you to believe that you could one day get into that position.
About our guest Tejiri
Tejiri is a product designer using research and user experience design to build products at scale. Her background is in computer engineering and she transitioned into design after taking up a graphic design role at a non-profit organization. Her overarching goal is to consistently gain depth in interactive technology and explore how interactive components can enhance relationships with people, products, and services in an increasingly digital future.
She thrives in fostering and nurturing developer communities. Currently, she serves as a Google Developer Group Warri Organizer and the Ambassador for the Women TechMakers in Warri, Delta State, Nigeria. These developer communities are inspiring as many people as possible to embrace technology as the new literacy. Her goal is to be in the forefront of advancing tech talents in Africa, empowering communities and driving transformational change in the tech sector through mentoring and workshop facilitation.
Podcast transcript
[00:00:00] Tina Ličková:
Welcome to UX Research Geeks, where we geek out with researchers from all around the world on topics they are passionate about. I’m your host Tina Ličková, a researcher and a strategist, and this podcast is brought to you by UXtweak, an all-in-one UX research tool.
This is the episode 54 of UXR Geeks. And we’re thrilled to feature the inspiring Tejiri, a designer from Nigeria with a passion for empowering others. Tejiri’s journey into UX design starts in computer engineering, a love for graphical design, and a pivotal moment during the global hackathon. This episode was recorded fittingly on International Women’s Day, and together we delve into the experiences of her as a female designer in Nigeria.
And challenges she faced and the power of mentorship and the community. She also shares her insight on how diverse perspective, especially from women, enrich design and business. Tune in.
As every time before we dive into the topic. I would like to ask you to a little bit introduce yourself. Who are you? What are you doing? Tell us everything you want to.
[00:01:24] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: All right. Thank you so much. And it’s so good to be on this episode. So my name is Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba. And most people call me Tejiri or TJ for short, because usually it’s difficult for them to pronounce the entire name.
So I grew up in Wari Delta State, which is in the south of Nigeria. And I have my background in computer engineering, but for the last three years, I’ve been a user experience designer. And so currently I work with Kimoyo. co, where I lead the design and deliver software solutions. And Kimoyo. co is more like a research tool.
It’s automating user research and market research across Africa. And in addition to that, I also co lead one of the Google Developers Community Program, where I’m helping over 600 people break into tech. So that’s a summary.
[00:02:25] Tina Ličková: Nice. So if anybody wants to have you as a mentor, they can approach you through this program.
Do I understand it right?
[00:02:32] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Yes. Yes, of course they can.
[00:02:34] Tina Ličková: Great. So please do it. I hope you are not overwhelmed after this episode. I’m interested in the switch of yours because it’s It’s not super common, but it’s common that people from IT switch to design. Where does it come for you this decision?
[00:02:51] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: I think for me it was because I was majorly In love with graphics.
I have very huge passion for creativity. And I actually first started as a graphic designer, from graphic design into user interface design, then into user experience design. So it wasn’t like an immediate switch. And this switch happened that was during COVID 19. Yes, when the COVID 19 struck, and there was an hackathon, a global hackathon that was calling out for innovators to come create solutions that could help tackle the COVID 19 at the time.
So with my graphic skills and also learning user experience design, I jumped on it. I joined a team that was called Team Fackle. And we created a contactless solution that could offer diagnostic tests to consumers and healthcare providers. And to our surprise, we ended up winning first place for COVID 19 Akerton.
And after that experience, I was like, wow, I was like, okay, I think design is a little more than just graphics. It can actually solve solutions. And I became more curious. And I wanted to learn more. So that was when I made the switch. I started taking courses. I started attending events, then here we are today.
[00:04:12] Tina Ličková: Nice, nice. And this leads me to the topic that we said we are going to talk about today, because we decided to talk about female and women designers in Nigeria. And we are also this recording on International Women’s Day, which we didn’t plan to, but really well. So maybe from the perspective of a woman, of a young woman trying to enter the business, how was it for you?
[00:04:42] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Okay. So entering into it wasn’t so easy, but I think what made it easy was the fact that I had mentors and I had role models I could look up to. And I think that’s something we also need more of. In the tech industry, in the design industry, and also in the engineering industry, because when you are able to see people that sound like you and look like you, it’s easier for you to believe that you could one day get into that position.
So I had people that they started off here. I saw them grow in their career. And an example I can give to you now is Michelle Shimbodo. She’s currently one of the lead product designers at Ledger, which is like a digital asset platform. And another person I would mention is Bernale Banwo. She is the co founder, no, sorry, not the co founder.
She’s the founder of Genesys School of Design and also the founder of Azaritech. These two women, I practically looked at their journey. They started from here and they moved into the international stage. And it was easy for me to relate to the Astra because I was like, okay, my location is not really an endurance.
What I need to do is I need to put in the work. If I have access to the right opportunities, the right resources, then also I too can play on the international stage. And so that was how it basically was for me.
[00:06:05] Tina Ličková: That is really important point. I was discussing it with a colleague of mine. He just, as a Eastern European, didn’t understand why Netflix is casting so many LGBTQI plus people, so many people are of color and it was like, society is like that and also you have things from other countries, but to see that somebody like you is actually making it, although it’s probably harder and you have to do more is important because I remember seeing a.
I think she was from Slovakia or Czech Republic, entrepreneur, being really high up in some company and I was like, wow, okay, so even Eastern European girls, but it’s not just making fun of Netflix in Netflix series about big hair and make up or whatever, but we can do shit.
[00:06:55] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Yes, exactly. Because once you are able to see this people, it’s more like a beckon of light that this is possible as well for me.
So it’s an encouragement for girls who also want to. Follow that career path too.
[00:07:09] Tina Ličková: Going back to you, those are the mentors or the people that you were looking to. How did it start for you? What were the steps leading to be a designer that you are right now?
[00:07:23] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Interesting. Okay. It’s a very interesting story because currently now I’m one of the colleagues of the Google Developers Group in my community.
And four years ago, when I was actually looking into how to transition into tech, I was looking at communities that were within my region. And that was when I came across the community year in worry, and it was being headed by Charles Freeborn. So I reached out to Charles Freeborn on Twitter. I sent him a DM.
That’s stuff whereby people will like, they’ll tell you that people DMs, expect a response in like a month. But to my surprise, He responded same day. I sent the DM in the morning, same day towards the evening. He had already sent a message and told me that, okay, he’s going to have a discussion with me. So he can probably understand what I wanted.
So we had the conversation and he told me he’s currently the lead for GDG and he would want to add me to the platform. Once I get into the platform, I would be able to have access to resources because they always organize workshops, meetups. At first I was hesitant because it was more of a developer community, but it was not until I joined the community, I saw it was a people that had diverse skills from product management to design, to QA testing.
So we had different people in the community. And so that was the beginning for me, just basically attending meetups, seeing what people were doing. So I was more like building on my curiosity and it was even in the community. After I joined the community, that was when the global Akerson Slack channel was shared.
So imagine I wasn’t in the community. I wouldn’t even have known that there was an opportunity like that. And so that was the journey for me. And I think another thing that totally helped me to come out of my shadows was the fact that the developers festival that was held that year, because they had more male speakers coming in, they needed more females to come in.
And so they asked me if I could be one of the speakers. I was like, what am I going to speak about? I’m just a graphic designer. And it was like, speak about your experience, speak about your designs, the people you’ve worked with. And that was how it started. After that experience, I got introduced to other people.
So it was more like being in the community, I had access to other communities because people were always sharing resources that was from other communities. So I just started building on from there, from mentorship. I went into Kimoyo Fellowship, that was where I got to learn about research, user experience design, and it just kept going, honestly speaking.
[00:10:09] Tina Ličková: Nice, nice. But it points out two things. The importance of a community, because the people you are meeting, then you become more easily the person that you want to become. And the second thing, what I love, that you were actually bold and sending out a message to a stranger. Because that’s what internet is for, and that’s, no, I think many, especially young females who I’m mentoring, they’re like, oh, should I be doing this?
Should I be doing that? I don’t want to be annoying. No, girl, you are not annoying. It’s just what you want. So, yeah, great. I know it’s a little bit strange question in a way. That I don’t want to divide qualities of men and women, but what would you say are the strengths and the different perspectives that women are bringing to design and maybe even into the Nigerian business?
[00:11:02] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: I think women are bringing a lot of strengths into design. And the first thing that comes to mind is the diverse thinking. Naturally, men and women think differently. Men are logical and women are really analytical. They tend to analyze the details to the minimum and analysis is something that is very important when it comes to design and speaking from the standpoint of being a user experience designer, if you are able to understand what your users require.
It’s easy for you to be able to create the solutions that you need to solve that your problem so that diverse thinking is really important because when you are able to have that balanced perspective, having the perspective from the male gender, the female gender, you are able to achieve a universal design.
That’s the first thing. And I think the next thing we’ll have to storytelling. Women are natural born storytellers. I still remember one day I was going through Twitter and someone was like, if you ask a man how his day went, he’s going to only respond to you with one word and I tells you my day was okay or it was good.
But you ask a woman, she’s going to give you like a 30 minute script, how she left the house, who she met, the colleague that annoyed her, every single thing that happens the entire day. And that is one perspective that women bring into design because design is all about storytelling. You have to be able to communicate the rationale behind the design you’re making.
You have to be able to communicate that experience. And I think those two things. Women bring them into design and what else comes to mind? Okay. Yes. I would say attention to details as well, too Another thing we may bring into design as well
[00:12:50] Tina Ličková: That’s interesting that you are mentioning the attention to detail because I will say some yes some not But the storytelling never came to me because yes Women tend to speak more because we were socialized to be more communicative.
We ask more questions Three times more as a question according to so it’s not even a stereotype. It’s really true How do you hey while we are socialized and it never came to my mind like yes This is how we can bring a story into design interesting. Very nice. Thank you for that And what is the situation now in Nigeria when it comes to female designers?
I know it’s a really broad question, but how would you describe it with your own words? We are not going to fact check it, but maybe your perception of the business and women in it.
[00:13:40] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Okay, for female in design, There was a data I came across and I believe it might have changed or it might have gotten worse after the pandemic.
And what it stated was that the probability of finding a female designer in a firm in Nigeria is 20%. And that is just for design, let alone for leadership. So it’s like very, the statistics is really low. But we still have a lot of women that are leading in design. Like I mentioned earlier, the two women I mentioned earlier that are still leading in design, leading decision making, also having to provide the opportunity for people to believe that they also have the opportunity to succeed in the environment of design.
[00:14:25] Tina Ličková: 20%. Yeah. I think numbers would be probably the same where I come from, or even in the German speaking countries. Leadership, but when it comes to the leadership you were mentioning it now Or do you have any perception on how many women and yeah, how many women are in leadership positions?
[00:14:45] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: In nigeria, i’m, not sure Of how many women are in leadership position.
But I think I came across a data by a diva reports, and that was just for the Western region. And according to the data, they said it’s based on international, um, standard. And they said, we have only 5 percent of women that are in leadership position in tech. 5 percent of women who won’t start up in tech as well.
Then when it comes to Fortune 500 companies, women were executives at just 11%. So that’s just for, yeah, the Western world, but for Nigeria, I don’t have that detail for Nigeria.
[00:15:22] Tina Ličková: Yeah. But it’s also interesting, at least for the West, Western part, I get it because getting these type of statistics is somehow really hard.
Why would you say, is it that there’s not so much women in design and no, not so much women in design leadership?
[00:15:39] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: I would say why we do not have so much women in design leadership is because one, there’s also like the shortage of role models. And what I mean by that is that, like I said initially, when you are able to see people that have gone ahead and doing the things you want to do, it encourages more girls to pursue careers that are in STEM, careers that are in design or careers that are in technology.
And also another thing that I would say is like the society expectations. There is this belief that the primary role of a woman is confined to her home. And that belief system has hindered progress for a long while. Because why? Women bring diverse skills and we need to recognize and we need to appreciate those skills and those talents they bring to the table.
Because women Uh, very articulating what they do. I think it was one report that I was reading as well, too. It was talking about some companies, I think 4, 500 companies that had women in their executive positions, and he talked about how they had increasing revenues, turning over a sister something percentage.
And if you see those kinds of data, it tells you that women have the skills that are needed to lead business and lead decisions making. So, like I said, societal expectations, lack of role models, those are two things I feel that imprint on women.
[00:17:05] Tina Ličková: Yeah. It amazes me that we have to still discuss this and defend that women are great at their jobs.
I don’t know if I want to cry from it or I want to be angry or anything. We have to come up with this data. Even the fact that we have to come up with the data, oh, we can earn money and good money. Is but I love it that you have to prove and a little bit more of a personal question because Especially when I started in advertising and then I went to ux Ux was very much for me A very welcoming place.
It’s a little bit harder when I was in management positions, where I was talking to people higher up in gear, he’s of the companies and there was where most of the time men, I didn’t have any really bad experiences, but when I was younger, it was harder. And there was quite a lot of sexism on different levels and a lot of looking up over me.
And sometimes you get an email that I go for a date and a guy learns that I am in UX and they start to lecture me on what is UX, where I’m, I’m like 10 years in this business. How was it for you personally? What were you fighting for and against?
[00:18:24] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: I think one thing I was always fighting for was proving that I could do what I could do.
You always had your skills questioned and I had an experience quite recently. I was, I had a meeting with a client because I had not met the client before. So we’re supposed to have that initial intro call, talk about and the product and everything. The moment I got into the call, I knew from that moment that.
We were not going to have a second call because of the responses and how the conversation was going. And so immediately he told me that he was going to give me a call. I knew the call was not going to come in and believe you now, I haven’t heard from that client. And so you always have like your skills questioned if you would be able to deliver, but it’s not about how I look.
It’s about what I can deliver to you. And that’s like the most important thing. I think that’s one thing I’ve experienced. And another experience I had as well, too, I was working with two odd guys on a product and I was the only female designer on the team. And so we usually had things. Whereby we’ll discuss what we’re working on.
And I discovered that for every time that we had a sync, it was like they had a conversation prior and moving into that conversation. It felt like it was a continuous conversation from what they had. So I was like, what exactly is going on? So I always felt by the side. And that’s where mentorship is very important.
I was very fortunate to have a mentor and I reached out to my mentor because I have both male and female mentors because I enjoy their different perspectives based on the work that they do. And he told me. That if I want to stop this, I should ensure that I speak up during the meeting, no matter what they say, I should ensure my voice is aired.
And at the end of every meeting, I should let them know that, okay, what are we working on till we meet next? Let’s assign the tasks that everyone will be working on. So when we meet during the next time, everyone is going to do a presentation of what they worked on and we are going to give feedback. And that was what solved it for me.
The next meeting I implemented the advice he gave me, and that was how we started working going forward. And honestly, I can tell you the truth, from the very first experience, it wasn’t nice. You would go back questioning if you’re good at what you do. And that’s not a good feeling at all.
[00:20:53] Tina Ličková: It’s not. I imagine people who are more introverted, or people who just Didn’t have a possibility to be bold because they didn’t have, for example, siblings to fight with training.
We women, it’s this paradox of, we have to be bold. We have to speak up for ourselves. We have to defend ourselves still. And when we do it, we are then even sometimes called bad names. Or, oh, you are too much, or you are too annoying, or you are too hard, or whatever. So it’s actually the feedback when you do it, and sustaining it can be hard.
[00:21:32] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Yeah, it can be hard. And you have to do it in such a way where you don’t come off as being rude. Because then people would take you that, oh, you’re someone who’s unappreciable. So you have to be careful about that as well.
[00:21:47] Tina Ličková: Yeah, but it’s still when a lady or a woman, female, is rude or angry. It’s always, I had a fight with a friend of mine where he goes, Oh, you’re aggressive.
Well, no, I’m not aggressive. I’m angry. And that’s the difference. And I’m showing you angry. You were mentioning more times, the mentors. And if you were to give an advice on, or maybe insight on this communities to younger people or even people who wants to get into the business, no matter the age, what would you tell, how can these communities and these mentors help you?
[00:22:29] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Okay. So for this communities and this mentors, they can help you with training. They can help you have access to resources. And also they also serve as support networks. And one example that I can give is like the Women Techmakers program. And like I told you earlier, one thing I’ve discovered is if you are in one community, there’s a probability that someone who is in that community belongs to seven or 10 other communities.
And every information they would be getting from that community will be passed on into that community. And that was how it started for me. I was just in. The GDG and WTM community. And from that community, I was having resources to other communities that she called Africa ingress for good, because they were constantly sharing the opportunities, sharing the resources that were in that communities, because we’re offering trainings.
There were communities that were offering as much as giving laptops to people who would want to learn how to program. You were offering data stipends, you were even offering as much as they would pay for a course you want to take. So. All of these opportunities are available. So you just need to join one community.
And I can say for starters, you can join the women tech makers, because that is one community that you have anywhere around the globe, wherever you are located. There’s a women’s tech makers community. If you can join that, you would have access to all the communities because the resources goes around like a three sister degree.
[00:24:03] Tina Ličková: Mm hmm. Understood. Great, great advice. And talking about advices, this is probably one of my last questions, but as we have the women international day, I want to ask you, what would you advise Nigerian men professionals, how to deal with women?
[00:24:23] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: I think the one word I would just say is empathy.
That’s the one word I would say.
Empathy. They should be more empathetic. We have a lot of men that are already doing that. I think recently. There were a lot of men that sponsored a few ladies in design during this International Women’s Day. There’s a design school called Purcells that is currently in Lagos. So what they did, they were like sponsoring 15 ladies into design.
So they were in long list, yeah, they were in long list. There were women that were sponsoring, but we also had men that were sponsoring. So you could see that they were putting themselves in these ladies shoes, understanding the point points, understanding this is what they need for them to be on the global stage as well.
They need the trainings, they need the technical know how, they need access to these opportunities, and it’s only come if they know how to do the required skills. And so this should just be more empathetic. Empathy is the key word. That’s what I would say.
[00:25:25] Tina Ličková: Mm hmm. I hope that a lot of men are really trying and doing the work.
I’m seeing it as well. And I hope more and more will come. Last question. Where can people follow you and where can they contact you?
[00:25:38] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Okay. So people can follow me on LinkedIn.
[00:25:40] Tina Ličková: Great. So thank you very much for your wisdom. Thank you very much for doing the work in looking into the data and telling us your story.
I really appreciate it and have a beautiful International Women’s Day.
[00:25:52] Oghenetejiri Agbodoroba: Thank you so much, Tina.
[00:25:59] Tina Ličková:
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